It’s a relationship with structure. But we tell people it’s a relationship with themselves so we can keep monetizing their pathology and leave the system off the hook.
Hi Brian, I agree that systemic forces further inequality and make a lot of people's lives much harder. But I disagree that we can either only focus on the system or our independent lives. There are lots of structural reasons why it's hard to be healthy – cheap food is generally bad for you, food deserts, gyms are expensive, we work long hours, etc. But we also have some agency within our current lives (some of us have more agency than others). And for me, personally, to not acknowledge the choices we do have would be very disempowering.
I was immediately frustrated with the equation that majoring in philosophy makes you a "doofus." Wow. At a time when critical thinking, ethical reasoning, and logic are under assault, this was really offensive. It made it hard to concentrate on anything else in this article. And the title was actually intriguing.
Hey Caitlin, sorry this offended you. As I just wrote in response to another comment, I'm actually a huge advocate for studying the humanities, and especially philosophy. (Another commenter shared her research showing that philosophy majors are often reliably compensated in their career.)
I wasn't making an argument or expressing a POV that studying philosophy is a poor financial choice. Rather, this was self-talk, thoughts I had when I was really struggling with money and pissed at myself. I think a lot of people look in their past for things to blame (and we certainly entertain thoughts that are not true). Again, I was just sharing how I felt and thought during this period of my life.
Great points, but please don't add to the stereotype and false idea that majoring in philosophy will lead to low income. This is myth - not fact. I've attached some handy research to back this up. Negative views on philosophy are especially bad ideas to share, in today's age of attacks on universities and - especially - the humanities. Majoring in philosophy is the smartest thing past-me ever did, and it's worked out will - financially and otherwise. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BuQfQ_2Jir4ORxylWVtlKXx8aMo6qidXnfIxs9L2FDI/edit?usp=sharing
Carol, thanks for sharing this research. I wish I could've reassured my parents with it a few decades ago…I'm an enthusiastic advocate for the humanities, and especially studying philosophy.
To be clear though, I wasn't actually saying that philosophy inevitably leads to low pay. I was really highlighting the ways that we can search in our past for blame, something to grasp onto. But this kind of rumination often doesn't help us actually get good with money. That being said, your point is well taken and I appreciate the research-backed callout that philosophies and humanities can be good for the soul and one's financial future.
From age 13 until age 47, I under earned and under saved. At age 13 I didn't ask my parents for name-brand jeans and fancy sneakers, but I did ask for a 10-speed bike. When my birthday came, I didn't get the new bike that I asked for; rather my dad found a (very good quality) used bike. But I internalized that I "wasn't good enough" for a new bike, and "wasn't deserving". And for the next 35 years I self-sabotaged my financial well being by under-earning. Paired with a mountain of debt ($692K!), our household was a financial house-of-cards ready to collapse with the next stiff wind.
17 years ago I read Build Your Money Muscles: Nine Simple Exercises for Improving Your Relationship with Money by Joan Sotkin. I unpacked the self-sabotage and began to treat myself and my finances with more respect. Together with another personal finance program, working a "debt-snowball", and a much better paying job, things began to change.
I don't beat myself up. I share my story often to inspire others who are feeling discouraged. I am not embarrassed - I was doing the best I could with what I knew at the time, including what I understood about my emotional relationship with money. When I figured out what was driving my self-defeating behaviors and became more savvy about budgeting/debt, I began to take LOTS of big and little steps in the right direction. I am now debt-free and ready for a secure retirement.
Keep going! It's going to get better one little step at a time!
Wow, that was quite a mountain. I could easily imagine giving up and feeling like it's impossible. Love to hear how you honed in on some of the psychological drives under it all. Congrats and thanks so much for sharing your story, Heidi.
This is an important reminder to me - show compassion for Past Me. One of the mental tools I have been using since starting my YNAB journey is thinking of "Future Me" as someone I want to be kind to; I want her to look back at me, and say, "Thanks, Past Me!"
But the flip side is that I have to recognize when Past Me did the best she could with the resources and tools she had. I had a lot of CC debt when I started YNAB, but when I finally faced it and looked back to how it all started, it was all legitimate emergency spending (medical/dental/car) that I could never dig myself out of due to lack of stable income. Today Me is no longer ashamed of Past Me's spending; instead I am proud of how hard she worked to get me where I am today (3 years in to YNAB, CC Debt free!).
Bravo for leaving the shame behind, Ellie. And congrats on your journey! Many people never get out of the stuck place of shame about spending. That's a lot accomplished in three years.
I declared bankruptcy, didn't learn, and declared again in January of 2016. The second one just came off my public records. I am 62 and was diagnosed ADHD four months before I filed. One of the things that I learned with the diagnosis is that impulse control, rather lack thereof, is one of my top symptoms. One credit card survived the bankruptcy with a $1000 limit. I used it for everything and paid it off two or three times a month. It wasn't long before I was offered more cards. Eventually I had about 70k in available credit. Before anyone reading loses their mind over this, I have accidentally carried a small balance three times in 10 years and have paid less than $10 in interest. I use the cards for what they give me. At the moment it's VentureOne for the miles, I have friends who retired to Italy last year and visiting them will be my first trip. I used YNAB for years before the bankruptcy. Unfortunately I used it poorly. Since 2016 it has helped me gain financial health and my bank accounts no longer get to $5 before payday, there's always a couple thousand in my personal and business checking accounts. I paid off my student loans in 2022, thanks to an inheritance as the balance was 110k and I'd be paying for another 18 years had my parents not managed the money they inherited. My credit rating jumped from the mid 600s to 720. It's been bouncing around between 730 and 742 since then. Until two weeks ago when the bankruptcy was removed from my public record. It is now 809.
Do I occasionally wonder what my financial situation might be had I not had severe impulse control issues, sure. But recriminations don't move me forward, they only make me feel bad. Currently I'm reveling in the 809, which is silly as I'm not buying anything that needs a good credit rating. But I spent my entire life being the one in the family who is "bad with money." Turns out I'm awesome with money and removing the impulse control problem makes that talent shine.
That's an amazing story, Tara. Sounds like your relatively recent diagnosis of ADHD brought a lot of clarity to your past actions. I can relate. Many congratulations on both climbing out of debt, but also embracing your new identity as someone who's good with money!
I'm way behind where I'd like to be on my retirement savings and much of the reason is because of some serious health issues earlier in my life, which meant I wasn't earning much money for years. It's part of my past but, like you, I don't dwell on it. Lucky to be where I am today. :-)
Keep looking forward, it's the only direction you can affect. I'll be retiring three days after I'm dead, but I fund my Roth IRA when I can and I'm finally putting some work into building my coaching practice. Coaching a few folks in addition to massaging a bunch will give me a little breathing room. I've really enjoyed your writing.
It’s a relationship with structure. But we tell people it’s a relationship with themselves so we can keep monetizing their pathology and leave the system off the hook.
Hi Brian, I agree that systemic forces further inequality and make a lot of people's lives much harder. But I disagree that we can either only focus on the system or our independent lives. There are lots of structural reasons why it's hard to be healthy – cheap food is generally bad for you, food deserts, gyms are expensive, we work long hours, etc. But we also have some agency within our current lives (some of us have more agency than others). And for me, personally, to not acknowledge the choices we do have would be very disempowering.
I was immediately frustrated with the equation that majoring in philosophy makes you a "doofus." Wow. At a time when critical thinking, ethical reasoning, and logic are under assault, this was really offensive. It made it hard to concentrate on anything else in this article. And the title was actually intriguing.
Hey Caitlin, sorry this offended you. As I just wrote in response to another comment, I'm actually a huge advocate for studying the humanities, and especially philosophy. (Another commenter shared her research showing that philosophy majors are often reliably compensated in their career.)
I wasn't making an argument or expressing a POV that studying philosophy is a poor financial choice. Rather, this was self-talk, thoughts I had when I was really struggling with money and pissed at myself. I think a lot of people look in their past for things to blame (and we certainly entertain thoughts that are not true). Again, I was just sharing how I felt and thought during this period of my life.
Great points, but please don't add to the stereotype and false idea that majoring in philosophy will lead to low income. This is myth - not fact. I've attached some handy research to back this up. Negative views on philosophy are especially bad ideas to share, in today's age of attacks on universities and - especially - the humanities. Majoring in philosophy is the smartest thing past-me ever did, and it's worked out will - financially and otherwise. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BuQfQ_2Jir4ORxylWVtlKXx8aMo6qidXnfIxs9L2FDI/edit?usp=sharing
Carol, thanks for sharing this research. I wish I could've reassured my parents with it a few decades ago…I'm an enthusiastic advocate for the humanities, and especially studying philosophy.
To be clear though, I wasn't actually saying that philosophy inevitably leads to low pay. I was really highlighting the ways that we can search in our past for blame, something to grasp onto. But this kind of rumination often doesn't help us actually get good with money. That being said, your point is well taken and I appreciate the research-backed callout that philosophies and humanities can be good for the soul and one's financial future.
From age 13 until age 47, I under earned and under saved. At age 13 I didn't ask my parents for name-brand jeans and fancy sneakers, but I did ask for a 10-speed bike. When my birthday came, I didn't get the new bike that I asked for; rather my dad found a (very good quality) used bike. But I internalized that I "wasn't good enough" for a new bike, and "wasn't deserving". And for the next 35 years I self-sabotaged my financial well being by under-earning. Paired with a mountain of debt ($692K!), our household was a financial house-of-cards ready to collapse with the next stiff wind.
17 years ago I read Build Your Money Muscles: Nine Simple Exercises for Improving Your Relationship with Money by Joan Sotkin. I unpacked the self-sabotage and began to treat myself and my finances with more respect. Together with another personal finance program, working a "debt-snowball", and a much better paying job, things began to change.
I don't beat myself up. I share my story often to inspire others who are feeling discouraged. I am not embarrassed - I was doing the best I could with what I knew at the time, including what I understood about my emotional relationship with money. When I figured out what was driving my self-defeating behaviors and became more savvy about budgeting/debt, I began to take LOTS of big and little steps in the right direction. I am now debt-free and ready for a secure retirement.
Keep going! It's going to get better one little step at a time!
Wow, that was quite a mountain. I could easily imagine giving up and feeling like it's impossible. Love to hear how you honed in on some of the psychological drives under it all. Congrats and thanks so much for sharing your story, Heidi.
This is an important reminder to me - show compassion for Past Me. One of the mental tools I have been using since starting my YNAB journey is thinking of "Future Me" as someone I want to be kind to; I want her to look back at me, and say, "Thanks, Past Me!"
But the flip side is that I have to recognize when Past Me did the best she could with the resources and tools she had. I had a lot of CC debt when I started YNAB, but when I finally faced it and looked back to how it all started, it was all legitimate emergency spending (medical/dental/car) that I could never dig myself out of due to lack of stable income. Today Me is no longer ashamed of Past Me's spending; instead I am proud of how hard she worked to get me where I am today (3 years in to YNAB, CC Debt free!).
Bravo for leaving the shame behind, Ellie. And congrats on your journey! Many people never get out of the stuck place of shame about spending. That's a lot accomplished in three years.
Thanks! Therapy helped a lot! haha
That's a pretty important category in YNAB in my experience!
I declared bankruptcy, didn't learn, and declared again in January of 2016. The second one just came off my public records. I am 62 and was diagnosed ADHD four months before I filed. One of the things that I learned with the diagnosis is that impulse control, rather lack thereof, is one of my top symptoms. One credit card survived the bankruptcy with a $1000 limit. I used it for everything and paid it off two or three times a month. It wasn't long before I was offered more cards. Eventually I had about 70k in available credit. Before anyone reading loses their mind over this, I have accidentally carried a small balance three times in 10 years and have paid less than $10 in interest. I use the cards for what they give me. At the moment it's VentureOne for the miles, I have friends who retired to Italy last year and visiting them will be my first trip. I used YNAB for years before the bankruptcy. Unfortunately I used it poorly. Since 2016 it has helped me gain financial health and my bank accounts no longer get to $5 before payday, there's always a couple thousand in my personal and business checking accounts. I paid off my student loans in 2022, thanks to an inheritance as the balance was 110k and I'd be paying for another 18 years had my parents not managed the money they inherited. My credit rating jumped from the mid 600s to 720. It's been bouncing around between 730 and 742 since then. Until two weeks ago when the bankruptcy was removed from my public record. It is now 809.
Do I occasionally wonder what my financial situation might be had I not had severe impulse control issues, sure. But recriminations don't move me forward, they only make me feel bad. Currently I'm reveling in the 809, which is silly as I'm not buying anything that needs a good credit rating. But I spent my entire life being the one in the family who is "bad with money." Turns out I'm awesome with money and removing the impulse control problem makes that talent shine.
That's an amazing story, Tara. Sounds like your relatively recent diagnosis of ADHD brought a lot of clarity to your past actions. I can relate. Many congratulations on both climbing out of debt, but also embracing your new identity as someone who's good with money!
I'm way behind where I'd like to be on my retirement savings and much of the reason is because of some serious health issues earlier in my life, which meant I wasn't earning much money for years. It's part of my past but, like you, I don't dwell on it. Lucky to be where I am today. :-)
Keep looking forward, it's the only direction you can affect. I'll be retiring three days after I'm dead, but I fund my Roth IRA when I can and I'm finally putting some work into building my coaching practice. Coaching a few folks in addition to massaging a bunch will give me a little breathing room. I've really enjoyed your writing.